But I concluded it would have been counted as sin. History indicates, at least to me, that whenever doctrine is being fashioned by a Christian group to distance it from its undesirable branch from which it has budded, Satan is more than pleased to offer his devisive assistance. to destruction), and believing Israel, which, along with believing Gentiles has become a vessel of mercy. After studying under John Calvin's son-in-law … Start over and let the Bible speak for itself. Romans 9. Without that “miracle” which is the new birth, faith is not possible. Romans 9. This is a known fact that God did this, but we also know that He is unable to sin. Would any one of us in our finite state ever even consider doing so to our own children? It would seem that the choosing is between saving all mankind or to save some only before He created man. 1-5ff. The key difference between a Calvinist and an Arminian is how they understand how we get saved — that is, how we move from a condition of spiritual unbelief to a condition of heartfelt belief or faith in Christ. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, See that in vs. 45, those who "have heard and learned from the father" are the ones who "come to me.". Submitted by Mike on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:15. Plus, innate in Koine is the orientation to cater to the other's perspective. For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” The descriptors in Romans 9:16 So then **it depends not on** “human will” or “exertion”, but on God, who has mercy, go along with the previous seven noted. Today, believers are able to participate in the covenant blessings of Israel, because they have been "grafted in to the rich root" of God's purpose in history. I will give one sentence for each — Calvinism and Arminianism — under the five points, and then I will say what I would say to my 13-year-old. It is unfortunate to cast a hardhearted position that my dear brethren who evidence "not" such a manifestation could be called into question regading their "making it into heaven". All extra biblical and terribly destructive psychologically damaging assumptions. He he, Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:38, In reply to Interesting how we argue and… by Anonymous. The Calvinist holds that these passages teach total depravity, unconditional election, and also imply limited atonement and double predestination. Of course God is sovereign and can do every thing and anything, but that doesn't sound like a loving God. Tragic. Now that you are no longer dead (nekrous) in your sins, you’re finally able to make and unable to resist making a decision for Christ but you’re already saved. Niniveh was the capitol of Assyria, and oft times the enemy of the Children of Israel, yet the LORD insisted that Jonah go there to preach to them concerning their wickedness (depravity). Was it not born unto "life"? Through the centuries, the debate between Calvinism and Arminianism has never really ceased. GOD continues in versus 10-13 connecting these to what was said in relation to the promise HE explains in extensive descriptive terms transitioning from a completely spiritual event to a temporal one: the promised one, Isaac, who would have two sons 1 before born, 2 neither having done good or bad, 3 for election to stand, 4 not due to either’s works, 5 because of HIM WHO calls, 6 the older will serve the younger, 7 loving Jacob and hating Esau though the text is this descriptive we would dare impose on it GOD knew what they would do therefore making GOD speak with a forked tongue. John 10:37-38 What the Holy Spirit explained to me was this. In reply to We all believe God is… by S. T. Thank you so much for expressing my thoughts more eloquently than I could. Their contrast of the Five Points of Calvinism with the Five Points of Arminianism is the clearest and most concise form found for the edification of the average student. 9 must account for the transition that Paul makes from national choice in vss. We strove to carefully consider the contexts and, in our minds, these verses and explanations faithfully represent the author’s intent, showing Arminianism to have strong Biblical support. Predestination vs Freewill. Let me close with a question, trying to answer the question that the dad asked. Three of the four seeds sown evidenced "life", as even Judas evidenced the working of miracles under the commission and authority of Jesus when they were initially sent out two-by-two. Ephesians 4:3-6 God did not over-rule this exercise nor its results, as we read, "...and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." I go with FREE WILL as it fits God's image and the image He created in man, it reveals how man fell, it agrees with a need to witness, have a church, have preaching, and win souls to Jesus. Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:32, In reply to Six points to argue against… by lynn sheldon, Christ himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins--and not only our sins but the sins of ALL the world. 1 Timothy 2:4, Submitted by Jose Colon on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:12. Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:37. - Galatians 2:4, "For FREEDOM Christ has set us FREE; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of SLAVERY." For all updates regarding COVID-19, click here. Go party and have fun, if you are on the list, you win and will be saved somehow, someway. Notice John 6 where Jesus says, "did I not call twelve of you, but one of you is a devil?" Calvinism does not make it through that filter: He "has predestined us to adoption as sons. The history of the Calvinist–Arminian debate begins in early 17th century in the Netherlands with a Christian theological dispute between the followers of John Calvin and Jacobus Arminius, and continues today among some Protestants, particularly evangelicals. So even if you were to remove the premise of election and definite atonement from the discussion, you still would have to affirm that God knowingly made people for destruction. By God's own justice, all mankind deserved to die in hell, and that means He did not have to choose who should go to hell. How can Christ’s sacrifice be sufficient if any can perish. The flesh profits nothing to appropriate for itself spiritual things that are impossible for it to do so. Those who reject God's gracious gift are predestined to destruction. The greek in Matthew 22 is just kantos (meaning a general call like the to repentance that everyone is to receive) and the word for chosen is *ek* lektoi meaning the elect of God. However, they call attention to the significance of the phrase "in Him." The destination is a return to the Father, the Way is through the work of Christ with the indwelling Holy Spirit as our guide. What is the purpose of that? Calvinists do nor deny that in our human experience that one comes to a place of making a choice. (Heb11:3) Though the system is different than your Man-Centered paradigm, it is plenty clear. God sovereignly chose, before the foundation of the world, those who would be saved by His grace, and brought to repentance and faith in Christ. If we reject Him, we stay separated from Him. Choice is in the Bible and election is in the Bible and these are two parallel lines that will meet in eternity when we meet him. The Arminian agrees that these passages teach total depravity. We ALWAYS act according to our nature. Depravity Then came the law where God had chosen his elect. This is what would represent sin for God and what He calls sin for us. Submitted by David on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:12, 2 Tim 3:15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. We have to realize that God had a plan. - 2 Peter 2:18-19. Or freedom to do what is right? I’m trying to explain this difference to my 13-year-old son and would love to boil it down to one or two watershed differences. . What profit is there in 'BEING' calvinist or armenian except to endlessly argue over interpretations of portions of scripture, to what gain? Greetings! He planned to do the latter because as far as God knew, it is the best plan. Sorry this is so long. Being dead and deserving of wrath, we are made alive with Christ by the riches of God's great love and mercy. .. for example William Carey . "But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. Definitely ELECTION goes AGAINST everything God stands for and interestingly, until Calvin and his followers came up with this TULIP idea, the Church wasn't doing too terribly bad but once this whole Election idea began taking off and then flourishing in the 19th and now the 20th century, we see the Church falling away and more and more new Bibles coming on the scene that are taking away the Truths that are hidden in the old text as Jesus himself pointed out. 49And the word of the Lord spread throughout that region. We are commissioned to spread the word of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the world that all people might come to God through faith in Jesus Christ. We believe in discipleship and emphasize community by meeting in home churches led by volunteers. 2:4! Who decided that? 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